Removal of Swallowciding

[articanus]

Personally the swallowside isn't fun in any sense in a game where Kirby is supposed to be a fighter equal to that of Fox/ Falco. Chu Dat has shown that in PM, and I'd like to nip it in the bud with melee-.

I have two general suggestions. Either it absorbs the power immediately, so that holding people in your mouth is not possible and circumvents the problem entirely. If people are that against not being able to spit out people in the star, then just having people pop out of the swallow animation reaaaaallly high to punish the swallowside attemptor.

I like the former. One of the fantasies of Kirby about a character that we all want is the ability to use the opposing character's ability against them, potentially changing the match-up drastically. If a character's ability is so bad that spitting them out would be better, I think we should just buff the bad neutral B characters' moves when Kirby has them(include warlock / falcon punch, but both were possibly giving jumps back afterwards so if Kirby got it too it would be ok.

idk, I just don't see a positive to keeping swallowciding. It limits us and forces us to hold back when we could give ourselves a MUCH bigger box to work with.

[a]

imagine actually wanting to remove a characters option lmao

[articanus]

I would remove a character's option with a move if it opens us up to making the move 20x better to use in a neutral situation(make it as fast as a normal grab, aka start sucking at 7 frames). We can't really do that if swallowciding is in the game.

[Thor]

Having read both threads in here [enhancement/removal of swallowcide], I think removal of swallowcide isn't a good idea, because anyone who plays Melee- having played Melee will be confused... and also because this bit of cheese feels like an important part of Kirby [that's purely personal, but I'd be sad to see it go].

First things first, swallow is punishable on hit by some characters. Grabs shouldn't be punishable post-throw ever, so that needs to be fixed, however it can be.

My thoughts for swallowcide were to buff the number of frames Kirby has before dying... in Melee you can swallocide certain characters [Falcon is one] and not die if you input a frame-perfect or near frame-perfect jump, and I think implementing an at least one-frame window to jump on all the cast, if possible, would be hilarious.

On the other hand, Kirby should not be able to easily swallowcide people. On the ledge? Sure, maybe, but he shouldn't be able to walk super fast offstage from an inhale mid-screen and KO you. Swallowcide should not be made purposefully easier.

My thought is to massively buff the startup speed of inhale ON THE GROUND, but leave it with normal startup in the air - this will reward outspacing an aerial approach with it [like other grabs] but it won't make it silly to use offstage, then add in the aforementioned change to how swallocide interacts with blastlines.

Oh, and characters who break out should pop high enough upwards that they can't punish Kirby, and they should regain their midair double jump for recovery. This will make it easier to recover if you mash successfully, and also easier to punish a failed swallowcide attempt if you don't mind dying as well [ex: as Falco, you could shine stall, then dj dair Kirby's recovery for attempting this]. It would make swallowcide less annoying for opponents who can mash [and if you can hack your Gamecube to play this, you should be able to mash <_<], but it also makes it a more useful tool when Kirby's back is to the wall, with an admittedly (intentional) higher risk attached.

[Steelix100]

ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh personally I'm against leaving in swallowciding, but since this is Melee-, and not, say, Project M or SD Remix, I don't see why it should have to be removed.

Personally I'm against it because it's just kind of dumb. and other reasons i forgot lol will post when i remember (aka never)

ezpz way to remove swallowciding
when you mash out, you pop up
done deal mah nigga

and if you still die from that, then well you deserve to die because you suck